This is a stream of consciousness, feel free to take it or leave it. Nonetheless, I am a part of an online community created by Mahogany Pink and we oftentimes do film studies. We recently did a study of “Joy Luck Club” which deals with the relationships between a group of Chinese American daughters and their mothers and how this influenced their romantic relationships.
It was quite a profound film and there were 2 characters that stood out to me. A character called Rose and her mother An-Mei. Just to quickly summarise, An-Mei is a middle-aged Chinese woman whose own mother went through a lot of things and in the end committed suicide. An-Mei has an Asian American daughter called Rose who is your stereotypical, docile, cooperative “good Asian woman” who did everything in her power to make her wealthy White husband comfortable such as suppressing her opinions and going above and beyond for him and this leads him to lose interest and cheat. In the end, the mother gives her daughter a pep-talk to not be a doormat and Rose gains some strength which her husband embraces and the couple reconcile.
The film and this segment could be dissected in so many ways but what stood out to me was what Rose’s mother was saying to her. She said, “I was taught to desire nothing”. She calls this the “Chinese way” and continues on to say “I was taught to swallow people’s misery and eat my own bitterness”. This was really profound to me, especially in this era of femininity gurus and the manosphere (which are 2 sides of the same coin) where Asian Women (AW) are usually placed at the top in both of these spaces.
As we discussed this film live and in Discord, someone brought up the idea of Asian women being perceived as good wives and I personally have been able to view/ engage with this community and others without the rose-tinted glasses and I’ve always tried to find a word to describe these women (African women too) and I previously could only describe them as women who endure. Bare in mind, these are women who are able to maintain marriages which means society views them as “good wives”.
The mother character finally gave me a term to describe these women, and I realise that they are women who are raised to desire nothing or very little (Just to note here that some Asians in my research have suggested that the mother figure trying to influence her daughter away from being the perfect agreeable wife was unrealistic).
It reminded me again of Jess Zimmerman’s Hunger Makes Me which I highlighted when discussing the manosphere:
I’ve realized that this is who most Asian and African women are… Now I know some of you are very confused right now because one walk into a Black female-dominated space and you’ll see “No one accepts as little as Black women” or “No one desires as little as us” but is this really true?
From what I see, your average Asian woman (we will focus on them due to narratives but Arab, African, etc also) go into marriages/relationships for a specific reason. For AW, this is usually for 2 reasons: to obtain Whiteness or Westerness (which makes said woman feel attractive in a world where White Beauty standards have a stronghold or a part of western society which one may view as superior and where she can benefit from Western norms i.e., not having to be a housewife, freedoms, etc. or she believes her children will have greater chances in life) or money. These 2 things (being non-Asian – specifically White and/or having money – which many Asian men have but many also acknowledge that more is required of them from AW and I’ve come across AW who I would describe as “sugar mama’s” or earn more than their WM which doesn’t fit the image but as I always say, not everything is as it seems on the outside) are usually enough for an Asian Woman to be with a man long-term.
Bear in mind, these women are from culture where it is already a norm to look past infidelity and other issues and so of course they will the do the same with men they view as superior to their own. Not everything is as it seems on the outside. As I said in my ‘marry up’ guide, it’s a fantasy world where a guy can relax with a girl who doesn’t pressure him for anything but a good time where these women are easy emotionally, and that’s the riddle that most women can’t solve. They’re chill in the relationship because they are in it for a specific reason. I recall on a podcast, a coach saying ‘everyone in San Fran is in an open relationship’ or when Woody Harrelson had a foursome and said his wife responded with compassion with “That must be really hard for you to be exposed”. We have to understand that such women will have different outcomes and be known as ‘great wives’ because they’re more chill & let men do their thing because there’s a greater benefit for them.
This is partly why there’s so much hate towards BW amongst men. Partly you are black in an anti black world so anything divergent to busing it open to any man for free and making him feel like a king is a problem because in an anti black society, men come with the mindset that “we didn’t expect to need to be something for you too!” But women that are praised by men are less vocal about a man needing to be this or that. Race / money is enough for those women and as I showed you on the video on this page where the Asian woman is drinking wine (here), AW already know if a man has money ( they’ll look at his job and do research) & obviously know when a man is another race- something they see value in, so when engaging with that man under the guise of having a deep interest in who he is, the checklist is already ticked (& there are a range of factors – particularly what their counterparts represent- as to why most men would thing they have a genuine interest in them over a BW) but while we are vocal about dressing a certain way, paying for all the bills etc all that make men inadequate and it’s already going to be easy to attack you because you are black (especially when you demand those things from men who have it the least or in a society where people expect you to be content with the bare minimum).
So I suggest getting to the end of this article to understand what I’m saying and when you decide what makes a relationship worthwhile for you/ your preferences- KEEP THAT TO YOURSELF.
As many of you have recognized, non-Black Women view men as tools while Western Black Women are still on the hunt for good old love (I feel like Western BW are the only ones for the most part, who marry solely for love…). We are very much still in Disneyland and I think the choices many BW make and the way some judge a Beyonce or Savannah James for sticking by their men through marital issues (but praising other races who hide the same baggage) highlight that. But again this may be about lack of proximity to men where it would be worthwhile so that is also the task for us.
Correct me if I’m wrong and I can only assume but it doesn’t appear to me that most Asian Women require a man to be good in bed, to be good-looking, to have certain political views or even not to be a racist. An example that comes to mind is George Floyd’s killer’s wife. The police officer was regularly reported for racist behavior. You can’t tell me she was unaware that her husband was racist and I doubt she herself was but because her requirements were being met, she was able to turn a blind eye and this is quite common. There are many instances where a man, e.g. Steven Seagal is accused of sexual assault but his Asian wife is still there or he cheats i.e Woody Harrelson but she’s still there doing her duties (very common if you are accustomed to Japanese culture where fidelity is not that strongly upheld but outsiders look at them having long marriages and therefore assume that whatever is going on must be optimal) and we have to understand that men, if ever rarely divorce women who cook, clean, have sex and rarely ask questions (and this isn’t an Asian thing, as an African, this turning a blind eye is so common (also in Arab/ Hispanic communities) and again this is looked at as maintaining a household and as women, we need to be real about these things, see what it is and play the game in order to benefit or exit altogether if there are no benefits).
Many AW appear to me to be content with a man who is White and/or Rich (doesn’t mean they don’t accept other things…) and men know that they are satiated by these things and men want to be able to satisfy women. Most Asian women have found something that makes heterosexual relationships worthwhile for them in the form of “foreignness” and/or “money” and I think we BW need to think about what makes this heterosexual setup worthwhile for us.
Back in the day, all western BW wanted was a man who was Black in order to fulfill their desire to have a “strong black family” but I think once many realized that this image of a strong black family is not being validated by outsiders as they/we saw a growing number of western successful BM with other races, the BW needed more however that “more” is not exactly something your average BM can provide and therefore we are oftentimes reprimanded by BM because they can’t give what some desire and they take it like an attack. With other women, men (the ones they pursue) can meet their needs; they can be White, they can be American and they can have good jobs that afford them a certain lifestyle. I’ve realized that as Western Black Women (Western women in general), who were raised on Disney, finding a suitable mate can be a little more difficult because of the way men are socialized, do they really have much to offer beyond social/cultural and economic capital?
(hmmm *deep thinking* The African in me jumps out when I write like this so be easy with me lol and I don’t mean someone being “good” because it’s human nature in all relationships to seek those who are “good” and avoid those we consider “bad”).
TW: I was randomly browsing Tumblr and came across this story of an Asian Woman whose son was killed by her White husband because he became a conspiracy theorist. My first thought was how likely would an East Asian man do that (not that they don’t but their rates of violence are lower) but I’ve realised that women who date out their race in great numbers don’t do it because they think such men are morally superior or better in every way. I think such women see that men as a whole have not and may not reach the level of empathy/ unconditional love women have for their partners and so they become very benefit-seeking. It’s more about thinking that this group will give me more benefits than my own.
I’ve realized that this is partly why BW may see the harsher side of being in a heterosexual relationship because everyone else is content (or forced to be content) with White/lighter skin and/or money as a currency to obtain through dating (2 things that are at the top of our society) but as a group of women who don’t benefit from cultural capital (due to mainly seeking BM who are disadvantaged in many ways and we don’t as a whole walk around feeling validated by a White man finding us attractive, if anything your average BW view’s it suspiciously) or money (again BM on average earning less and being raised to not value money). Therefore, what are we satisfied by?
I think we (more than anyone) begin to see that this construct may be a bit of a scam when such benefits are not present and so we may not realise it but we look to other incentives to be in these relationships (which are harder to obtain due to how men are socialised and things like pornography and poorer diets) such as being handsome, having liberal views, being good in bed, exciting personality, romantic, good fashion sense, similar interests, similar background etc. The issue I feel is that many Western Black Women, look at other races of women through rose tinted glasses, and assume that they are getting everything they’ve ever wanted from men but the reality is that they view men as tools and get what they can from them.
People have a lot to say about the hyp*rgamy girlies but when I look at the construct called marriage, it was always an economic thing and the more you demand from it (oftentimes to cover up the lack of economics) the harder it is to withstand. Even the term “soulmate” was originally for the relationship between God and (wo)man, not a romantic partner. I feel like Western women have maybe put a bit too much onto it and may do better getting some of their desires met from other areas.
What Black Women desire from men is not too little, it’s just the wrong things.
Please don’t take this article as a sign that it’s unrealistic to get a well-rounded man (because I’m all about creating your life and many women speak about writing down all the different traits they desire in a husband and finding success) but we also have to be a bit realistic and acknowledge that the women you guys look up to and are praised as “great wives” are not behaving how you think they are and are actually satisfied with fewer things (these things just hold greater value in society vs the multiple things your average BW value’s). You don’t ever have to look to these women as a guide (but many of you do :/ without seeing what it really is) and I always say do what’s best for you but understand that what’s constitutes having a long marriage or being a “good woman” in our society especially when you don’t have direct contact with women of the Global South, may not be what you think it is.
To conclude, as I stated in my article on the importance of marriage, all women need incentives to do the things that are required of them in a heterosexual marriage (to do anything tbh) and I think it’s important for Western BW to really think about what things are most important to them? What do you actually want from a man and what kind of man can give that? and if other things were to fall through, would you still be content with those things? If fidelity or a high moral character is very important then maybe you shouldn’t place such emphasis on a man’s d*ck game or if money is important because you want a certain lifestyle or have philanthropic plans then maybe having a husband whose politics differs won’t hurt. Have your standards but there has to be a WHY to the relationships we undertake so they can withstand and weather any storms and it’s usually not a man’s penis size or the party he votes for. Being a woman who is satiable is probably important in order to have a long-term heterosexual relationship because you need to be satisfied with something to play that role.
OTN
3 thoughts on “Do WESTERN Black Women Live In A Fantasy World? | Dating”
I see your point, and that’s why I prefer the idea of having lovers and prioritizing romantic, fun experiences. I have my own finances but I want fun, not marriage. Multiple guys can bring me what I want. I think that’s more ethical, than finding a guy who only fits one criteria and I become unsatisfied and cheat on him. Better to break up than cheat.
Unlike Asian women, a racist guy is permanently off my list. A racist with sexual perversions is a monster in the making. I can be more flexible in other areas but not this.
I respect your opinions/ lifestyle. Bare in mind no one is telling you to date racists lmao anyway, Thank you for reading <3
I think a lot of young black women today are focused on the fairytale to their detriment. Other races of women use marriage as a come up.
You have to look at a marriage as a salad with your salad dressing on the side. I have been married 30+ years. My husband is an excellent provider he pays the mortgage, health and car insurance and I am responsible for groceries. The flip side is we have been in loveless, unaffectionate, sexless marriage for 15 years. I could be bitter and leave but why? My basic needs are being met ( food&shelter) . Honestly I can get those other needs met through being social and extended family or even dating. My husband isn’t abusive, we have just run our course but we are friends. All marriages have certain trade offs. I’m not going to be out here struggling like my mother did when she left my father. I will just have my salad dressing on the side by doing things outside of my marriage to make me happy. If we one day decide to go our separate ways between my social security and my 401 k I should be good. Be smart ladies, marry a provider so even if it ends you will be good because feelings change.