TW: I will be discussing a number of TRIGGERING topics so please read when you are in the right frame of mind & please read to the end so you can get the full gist of my mindset.
In this post, I will be discussing how I became a Black Woman who rejected her conditioning and became a woman who doesn’t value men based on race. Just to put it out there, I don’t believe in Black Women pedestaling any race of men as a group or when it comes to choosing a partner as I believe that there are so many more important factors to consider when seeking a husband.
Nonetheless, if you’re are a Black Woman in the diaspora (The US, Europe etc.), you regularly hear Black Women say something like “I would never let a White Man touch me” or “I could never date outside of my race” and there’s always been this desperation (especially in the past) to let it be known as a Black Woman that you’d never date a White Man or that you only want to date a Black Man. Black Women thought that this would help them gain favour with Black Men but it does the opposite.
Sometimes I’ll see a young Black girl and she’ll upload a cute selfie with her bf and the responses will be like “wtf a White!” and this comes from both Black Men and Women. So as a community we have this narrative that engaging with White Men or non-Black Men is a problem (this is changing amongst Gen Z but generally this is the narrative). This was made clear to me when I was watching a video by a woman called Six the Goddis who talks about Black femininity (I enjoy her videos on this) but is very much against Black people dating outside of their race. She stated that “Black Women have the power to tell White Men no, unlike our ancestors” and continuing to do so was honouring them.
(Disclaimer: I respect Black Women doing what makes them comfortable and in no way shape or form do you have to let a non-Black Man anywhere near you. This is a very personal post detailing how I developed the mindset I currently have).
Her statement hit me like a ton of bricks as a first-generation African Woman and I realised she was coming from a very privileged position as an American. The statement she made was very false and it is false because of poverty…
So let’s talk about sex work. Sex work is something all races of women engage in (even in countries like Iran they have “rent a wife” services so you can see how widespread it is). When it comes to paying for sex (particularly when it’s more high-end and in the West) it is usually done by men who have quite a bit of disposable income and the wealthiest men in the world are Asian, White and Arab and so men from these cultures usually make up the majority of men paying for sex as they usually have the means to pay for a better service and sleeping with random women and potentially impregnating them is frowned upon. We have Black Women who are in this industry and they are oftentimes engaging with non-Black Men because they have the money or they are the men willing to spend money on them. Sometimes you will explore a Black sugar baby’s social media and she’ll be like “my Irish sugar daddy sent me £1000” and everyone’s like “Yasss girl, get it!” Even in everyday couples where they see a non-Black man who appears to be wealthy with a Black Woman, they will use language like “secure the bag!”.
There are numerous reasons why Black Women don’t want to date outside of their race; they don’t want to be fetishized, they don’t want to be sexualised or they don’t want to be someone’s chocolate fantasy and, interestingly, many will see a normal interracial couple and berate it but these same women will see Black Women engaging in sex work, which is literally having sex with men for money (there’s nothing more sexualising/ objectifying than that – I support sex workers but we know that’s not any woman’s ideal profession) and they will support/praise that as oppose to normal relationships.
As Black Women, globally we know that due to several factors we can be (women in general) more susceptible to poverty. Black Women are hustlers and we’ve pushed through so much (as Beyonce said, we make lemonade out of lemons) but some Black Women, unfortunately, fall into sex work or other dangerous jobs due to poverty or the trauma they’ve experienced in their childhood. I’ve realised that as a community, instead of pushing Black Women to date men who are economically secure no matter that man’s race, so her and her daughters don’t have to end up doing risky work, they shame them into dating one race, who we know do not have the largest pool of wealth.
^ A study by the Brookings Institute now re-titled “The inheritance of black poverty: It’s all about the men” concludes that Black Women’s family position is damaged directly or indirectly by the poor outcomes for Black Men.
We have Black Women who would “never let a White Man touch them” and so instead of securing wealth or a better living environment they sometimes end up in situations where their daughter or niece will literally have to “let a white man touch her” or those men watching her on a cam so she can pay her bills. This does not make sense to me. A lot of Black Women don’t understand the power dynamics of this world because poverty means that every race of man has access to you and we’re not questioning why some Black Women are in poverty in the first place.
Also, this behavior of putting Black Men on a pedestal because of their race is unfortunately very one-sided as highlighted by this highly liked response to Dr. Umar telling BM to prioritize BW as mates:
TW:
Now I’m going to go back to what I introduced before which was the concept of Western privilege. I spent a lot of my time last Summer looking into Sex Tourism because of an assignment I had. I choose to focus on the Dominican Republic and Jamaica. It was extremely mentally draining to read journals on this topic. As Black Women or even human beings, we don’t want to constantly remind ourselves of the darker things that are happening to Black Women/girls globally as we want peace of mind but we need to be aware to some extent. Sex Tourism involves men (usually from the Global North but not always) flying to the Global South for sex. We usually associate it with South East Asia because it’s rampant there but it’s also common in parts of the Caribbean and Africa (A Gambian minister even had to apologise for telling tourists not to come to their country for sex and if that’s what they want they should go to Thailand). It occurs because the men have not built any structures to protect these women and there’s no line of defence. For example, Japan used to be a hub for foreign men, specifically soldiers seeking sex with Japanese women but due to development, Japanese men have put barriers in place to protect their women and now foreign men can’t even go to certain clubs but you can see in other countries that with poverty comes exploitation.
I remember watching a very unfortunate documentary based in the Dominican Republic on Sex Tourism and the reporter (a very well-known respected British-Indian journalist) was with 2 European men and a local Black Man and the White Men said “We take these ladies out and if we weren’t here, what would they do?” and of course this is disgusting but the camera kept going on the local Black Man’s face (I’m not sure why he was there…) and you could see the powerlessness and he was just standing there looking at those men. Since I’ve spoken about this on other platforms, a follower of mine sent me an article about the brutality Congolese Women face, especially when it comes to sexual violence and a man was discussing his wife or sister being violated by a member of the state and how they need help from powerful countries to stop this.
I just don’t think some Black Women are aware of how incapable some men (who look like you) are, when it comes to protecting you from harm. I’m African so no one needs to tell me about some of the things that happen to Black Women but I think some of you aren’t aware of how vulnerable some Black Women are and I can tell by the choices you make or even how you engage with men (future blog post on the real meaning of femininity). Black Women will see what I saw in that video and the first thing they will see is those 2 older European men and they’ll conclude that White Men are evil for taking advantage of those young poor women (and White Men are the face of Sex Tourism). This is very true; they are disgusting men but here is where we start pedestaling the wrong men. I don’t think many are aware that some Kenyan Men are forcing their wives to engage in sex with tourists and it’s known amongst West Africans that Nigerian Men (and madams) will blackmail their women to sleep with Italian Men for money. I found this fascinating because Black Men have such a hatred for Interracial relationships especially if the woman is very beautiful but when it comes to making money off of these women (which has been happening for decades but we’ll come back to this) there’s no issue. A lot of you would watch such a documentary and start pedestaling Black Men because it would reinforce the disgusting view you already have of White Men because they take advantage of poor Black Women (WOC) but some of you don’t know that in some of these scenarios Black Men (MOC) are involved.
What I notice amongst Black Women is that non-Black men are viewed as evil for the way they exploit but the only difference between them and Black Men is that a BM devours his own community and women as opposed to taking it out on those outside his community (probably because he is aware that the repercussions are different).
Now let me bring in my favorite comparative which are Asian Women. Now Asian Women for decades have been victims of Sex Tourism but I think Asian Women understand what I’m saying (at least some, I won’t say every AW is just born on code, some just worship whiteness but I think some groups to some degree who engage with White Men get what I’m saying). As an outsider, there might be some people who are confused by the fact that many Asian Women (especially with the way some White Men talk about having access to Thai and Filipino women on forums) in the West pedestalise or prefer White Men so much. There are whole towns in the Philippines where the women will read out European names of the men who have abandoned them with children and there have even been online books published by Western paedophiles saying, go to Asian, this is where you can sleep with children and so this is all quite shocking and contributes to ideas about Asian Women being extremely self-hating. But I think we need to look a bit deeper. To me, it appears that Asian women (especially those that come from poorer countries who make up most IR relationships) are aware that White Men will have access to them regardless and they are happy to have ethical relationships with men of all races than to have only the seedy sexpat relationship representing them.
^ Mark Zuckerberg (creator of Facebook) and his wife Priscilla Chan.
I believe that to some extent that successful educated Asian Women with successful White Men helps society not view them in one way (not completely since there are usually differences in ethnicity when it comes to women who are associated with Sex Tourism) but we all know every day regular ethical relationships involving a White Man and an Asian Woman and so we no longer completely associate that dynamic with something dirty or seedy.
I remember someone highlighting how Asian Women improved their image from women who give perverts happy endings/ dragon ladies to optimal partners while having little representation in Western media and this was mainly due to them aligning themselves with certain types of men.
Another big thing is that some Asian Women are aware that their own men have a hand in their exploitation and that’s why they don’t GAF/ don’t have loyalty to a specific group. When it comes to places like Cambodia, the government themselves is selling girls to men. When I was reading about this stuff deeply, I was made aware that in Cambodia they have an idea that sleeping with virgins has health benefits (some African Men think the same way) and so in some spaces sleeping with children is not seen as abnormal! Do you understand what I’m saying? White Men only came and took advantage of what was already there. A lot of us see these disgusting White Men and we’re so enraged (rightfully so) but most couldn’t take advantage of what wasn’t there, they could not create the normalisation of sleeping with children, something was already there…
^ (@lesa.milan) I recall this image floating around and the language used by women who saw this photo was similar to the language sugar babies use. Yes, her husband is successful, they live in Dubai and he spoils her but in this particular photo it was his birthday and he was being treated.
Firstly, I believe Black Women need to stop monetising and sexualising everyday interracial relationships. Just because a man is White, Not Black or Older and taking care of a Black Woman (which is the norm in most relationships) doesn’t mean she’s securing a bag. A lot of Black Men as a result can shame Black Women in these relationships with comments like “Is the bag worth this much?” and you laugh along thinking it’s just jokes but they’re trying to push the narrative that you’d only date a man who isn’t Black for money and they try to push this seedy image on every Interracial relationship (they are smarter than you think). This is why you should shut that narrative down as soon as you see it and not consign it. She is with that man because that’s who she desires and loves as oppose to “secure the bag!” and as Black Women, we should never feel the need to explain why we’re in certain relationships, just like other races don’t because explaining suggests that you owe someone an explanation and we don’t.
A lot of us need to understand (whether you wouldn’t let a non-Black Man touch you or not) that the presence of ethical Interracial relationships involving Black Women is beneficial for your image because there are places in the world where unethical relationships are taking place and that can create a very negative image if that’s all that exists. No matter how “Pro Black” you are, it’s beneficial for Black Women to have loving relationships with all races of men as there will always be levels of power and Black Women should do everything they can, to makes themselves less vulnerable. It’s better to push Black Women to seek the very best for themselves, no matter the race, so BW and their daughters don’t have to engage in risky behaviour or be degraded just to get by.
TW:
When it comes to pedestaling men, of course, the focus is on Black Men when we’re talking about Black Women but I see also nowadays the pedestalization of Non-Black Men of Color who, if you speak to their women closely exhibit many of the flaws, we say Black Men have (being colorist, white worshipping etc.). I’ve spoken about this a lot on my other platforms but it’s clear, particularly amongst African Americans that some of you are not aware that the first slave traders of Black Africans were people of color- Arabs. Arabs created race-based slavery during the Islamic slave trade and the focus was on women for harems. There were also Afro Arab slave traders and African men selling their daughters into sexual slavery. (An article on fairplanet called “Forgotten slavery: The Arab-Muslim slave trade” talks about this in detail but it is extremelyyy triggering so I will not link it but if you need insight, you can look it up). Many Black Muslims have shared their thoughts on this but say Arabs also enslaved White People but we should understand that the transatlantic slave trade couldn’t have taken place if this didn’t take place. Arabs to this day are abusive to their African / Filipina maids and North African Arabs are very anti-Black based on what the Black French female diaspora tells me. The issue to me here is that we have people walking around with this idea that only White Men are devils (these devils just happen to be the most powerful men) particularly when we discuss slavery. Yes, some are but other men (Arab/Black) were doing even worse, prior (knowledge of this has undone my conditioning to only see White as evil). In some spaces a Black Woman can say an Arab Man is attractive and there’s no issue but if she talks positively about a White Man it’s WW3 because we don’t truly know the history.
Another thing I’m seeing now is the obsession with East Asian Men, and publicly praising them as a whole. What I’m discussing in this post is not about dating but the pedestal some Black Women put them on. I’ve seen Black Women say that they feel sorry for Asian Men and that they relate to them which is somewhat abnormal in my eyes (relating to men on that level) since we live in a patriarchal society.
^ Kris Wu is a former Chinese member of one of the most popular K-Pop bands, EXO and has been arrested for raping women, some underage.
I’ve read articles where Korean Men say they feel victimised by feminism and some Asian Men are extremely misogynistic. These women are building movements where they are avoiding marriage and even dating men which has contributed to one of the lowest birth rates.
There was even a story I came across where a group of Korean men (Wonnation) preyed on underage black girls who pedestalised them because of their race. We need to understand that pedestalising men, specifically a certain kind will be used against you. When I speak on this, others will say “well those men will think BW don’t find them attractive if we don’t speak up” but when you’re in the presence of a man, it’s very easy to show him that you’re attracted to him. Also, if you’re reading this, please don’t travel to countries outside of the west seeking a relationship because those men are raised differently and as a western woman with western values, you probably won’t find the type of man you’re looking for. I even recall being asked once online by a Korean guy to take a picture of myself like I was a strangle victim and this was a regular looking guy… There’s just a lot of things but I know that because most Black Women attribute every negative interaction, they have down to their race unlike other women who can be brutalised by other races but it doesn’t affect how they view themselves (in terms of their race), I won’t list everything I’ve heard.
Personally, I have had good interactions with East Asian men (they were British born tho !) but the reason I dedicate a lot of time to this is because there is a view that the men many young girls see in K-Dramas are found in every Asian Man and the pedestalisation is not only embarrassing but extremely dangerous.
It’s okay to have empathy if you think someone is going through something but seeing an Asian Woman mock an Asian Man and feeling like it’s your place to say it’s wrong (when the energy isn’t returned) doesn’t make sense to me. Particularly with the reading I’ve been doing lately about the lengths men have gone to control women and take away our power, it’s hard for me to identify with random men.
You don’t identify with groups of men; you identify with a man who can enhance your life.
This is why I believe both the pro-black and swirling spaces fail and why neither side can get along.
We are very aware of White racism but not so much POC anti-blackness because we don’t speak the language. TW: When I hear about a Chinese man getting children from Malawi to say anti-Black things on film and then selling them online, I think about the many Black Women who have put POC men on a pedestal even though they may be less beneficial. This is the issue with pedestalizing ANYTHING but a man’s morals, wealth, and how he treats you. You don’t know what may occur in 20 years when China or any other country takes over, what will be exposed in terms of their dealings with Black people, and then you making that choice to have these 5 Blasian kids solely because you gave an Asian man extra points because he’s not white. Would you feel good about that? but if said Asian man was the best you could get then you probably wouldn’t mind. The same way BW are pedestalizing Black Men and finding out they’re colorist. Doesn’t it suck that you pedestalize them because you thought, “he can’t be racist, he’s black” only to be bamboozled but again if that was your best bet, oh well, at least I got something out of it. We really need to get like others where the main driver is to seek the richest man, they could find with great morals who sees value in them. Not clouding this choice with all the other bs and narratives you’ve internalized.
If you’ve made it to this point, please understand that I’m not trying to depress you because I could have just listed every wrong thing a man has done to a Black Woman since the beginning of time and this isn’t a “men are trash post” because if men are capable of enhancing your life, then they cannot be trash and clearly have some use to us. What I want Black Women to understand, which I think some others understand is that no race/group of men are worthy to be placed on a pedestal by you as a Black Women based on things that have happened and are happening to Black Women (large and small) at the hands of all races of men including our own. Calling yourself, a white man’s wh*re is questionable, praising whole races of men is questionable and being race loyal is questionable. (I’m not talking about cultural preferences in dating where you have a concrete reason to avoid a culture, for example, due to how they treat women but I’m talking about praising whole communities or giving someone an extra point solely because of their race/ethnicity).
Even in dating, the Mexican Lauren Sánchez dated/ married both White, Mixed and Black men before settling on one of the richest men on the planet Jeff Bezos. One thing I’ve always liked about Hispanic/Asian women is that they don’t have unnecessary preferences that stop them from accessing the best they can access. Many of you put so much on putting Black Men on a pedestal like “creating generational wealth” or “building the community” when you’re not even doing that and at best are just getting d*ck – not always even good at that. As a woman, the only preference you should have is wealth, morals, and the way a man values you.
Unfortunately, BW have a trait where everything becomes a religion for them. 1 Asian man is so great and kind to them and so now you’re obsessed with them all or you’ve come across one really toxic white guy so they’re all trash. Cult behavior doesn’t end well as you lose all perspective which is the opposite of vetting.
This post is not about any particular man being terrible but due to some men of all races behaving in very problematic ways, you can’t afford as a woman to be with a man and get nothing in return so whatever man can enhance your life the most, that’s where you should be. No prioritizing of different races (especially publicly), move in silence and pedestalize whatever specific man has the means to enhance your life. This has to be a strategic choice.
OTN
5 thoughts on “Why I Don’t Pedestalize Black Men or ANY Race of Man”
Hello, I know this is an old post but I feel like it’s still relevant and I agree with everything said. I believe black women shouldn’t pedestalize any male group because it backfires on us.
I was watching a video about the misrepresentation of black women in the media. One comment asked why do white men keep putting out negative stereotypes of black women on TV, movies, etc.
Then a white man answered and said:
“No, we’re not trolling. I’m just going to give my point of view based on what I see and hear around me. A lot of white men secretly desire black women but because of our messed up history (and other factors) with black women, they distance themselves from us consciously or subconsciously and it’s p*ssing us off. The vast majority of black women still remain loyal to black men despite our efforts to ruin their image and make their men disloyal to them. It’s annoying when every plan we think will work blows up in our faces. Then we’re left with obese women and Asian chicks (though Asian women are hot, they mostly just want our money)”
So according to him, most white men secretly desire black women but they like to stereotype us at the same time? Ok. The reason most black women don’t approach white men is because they’ve played a large role in ruining our image worldwide along with black men. It’s also because when black women are constantly being degraded and mocked by them in the media, it obviously gives us the idea that they don’t like us.
This is why I think pedestalizing ANY race of men is a bad idea for black women. But it has been happening more & more now. I’ve seen black women who have dated one white man and because they had a good experience they claim all white men are like that. As if that one white man represents all of them as a group.
They’ll make generalized statements & bold claims such as “majority of [insert race]men actually like/prefer black women.” The reason I think these comments are bad is because it’s glorifying entire male racial groups when they don’t deserve it. What have majority of white, Latino, Asian, or Arab men done for black women to be deserving of such praise from us on a large scale?
Just save the praise for your man and your man only. For example, If a black woman is with a white man that cares for and loves her then great! However, don’t start using that as a reason to glorify ALL white men because it can make you look foolish when those same male groups you put on pedestals participate in degrading or attacking black women. Don’t pedestalize men that aren’t doing the same for you.
Hey Clarissa, I fully believe what that is saying because I’ve seen it with my own eyes. When men feel like they don’t have access to a woman/women they target them, physically, verbally, sexually because in their minds they’re entitled and the rejection hurts their egos. I’ve had non black men go from praising me to calling me slurs or accusing me of thinking I was too good for them, calling me biggie , etc the moment I rejected them (no matter how nice it was).
A while back in the US there was a mass shooting in which a white incel k*led Asian women because they were the object of his attraction, he felt like they would reject him so he preemptively attacked them , he was punishing them for making him attracted to them.
The safest thing we as black women can do is to limit our interaction with strangers in public spaces where others aren’t present, carry a licensed weapon and get training because as things get worse in the West, redpill ideology will increase and Black women will be the most impacted because all groups of men feel resentment towards us.
Right. He said “no matter how much we try to ruin black women’s image and make their men disloyal to them, they remain loyal to black men.” Now, I definitely don’t think black women should be loyal to black men, but I don’t think we should pedestalize non-black men either. Black women are in a tight spot unlike other groups of women. Largely because our male counterparts are so degenerate. That’s not to say other groups of women don’t have degenerate men in their communities, but the thing is their men still build and provide for their community regardless. Black men are degenerate AND they don’t provide for their communities.
His comment stuck out to me because it seems he believes white men are entitled to have black women because they have power. So he says white men believe that if they ruin black women’s image enough that more will be inclined to date them. But it backfired and had the opposite effect (unsurprisingly). I’m confused by this logic? Why would ruining a group of women’s image worldwide make those women want you? I guess it’s like when men lower a woman’s self-esteem so she would go out him. So if black women started dating them in large numbers, would White men suddenly start putting beautiful black women on television and movies to undo the countless years of negative representation and stereotypes? I don’t think so. White men would never abandon white women. They literally colonized lands and worked for centuries to make their women the beauty standard of the entire world. So there’s really nothing we can do to stop them from negatively representing us other than creating our own magazines, shows, and movies to counteract it. This isn’t even getting into the fact that black men ALSO participate in degrading and putting out harmful stereotypes or black women. So it’s going to be a lot to push back against two male groups that are negatively promoting us on a large scale.
Men are driven to insanity at the thought that a black woman could reject them. The man thinks “black women are at the bottom of the totem poll so I should have easy access to them as a man.” So when we reject them, it causes confusion and anger. Growing up, I’ve seen scenarios where a man will be hitting on a black woman then she rejects him, and he switches to calling her fat, ugly, nappy-headed, and “I don’t want you anyway.”
That situation you described with the white man doing a mass shooting of Asian woman is interesting to me. It’s common knowledge that Asian women flock to white men. Even the most average white loser can find an Asian woman. I once stumbled across 4chan (a extremely racist website) and the women preferred by most of the men on there seem to be Asian women. When it comes to black women, however, one second they’ll be calling black women slurs, then the next they’ll be posting pictures of attractive black women and fawning over them. It’s very strange. Black women should avoid these men at all cost.
This is all interesting but I really don’t want BW dwelling on one man’s comment which doesn’t reflect the thoughts of them all or thinking about incels. I think we overcomplicate things. I def use different groups as comparatives but I don’t care about who incels like or what someone is thinking. It’s all a distraction. It’s not about “all black women dating white men to fix out image”. It’s about doing what’s best for us individually so we are living well. My message is simple , no man deserves praise or a pedestal REGARDLESS of his race by BW unless he is her husband.
Right. If a black woman has a husband that cares for her and loves her, the praise and pedestalization should be saved only for him. Not all the men of that particular racial group.